I Need The 411 On CIO ASAP

**UPDATED BELOW**

Okay, everyone! *clap! clap!* Look here!

I need some serious help.

It's about the Curious Incidents of The New Girl in the Night.

Our night routine goes something like this:

Around 6:30 we start getting ready for bed.  (I moved it up from 7pm.) She starts to get cranky, quickly gets over-tired and goes from 0-60 in minutes, screaming hysterically as we prepare and then I nurse her down.  She falls asleep, normally in minutes and then I attempt to leave the room. 

Usually she wakes up crying anywhere from 2-15 minutes later. 

I go back in and nurse her (comfort sucking, really) or bounce her back to sleep on the ball.  Usually nurse.  She goes back to sleep in minutes and then I attempt to leave.

Usually she wakes up crying anywhere from 2-15 minutes later.

Repeat, repeat, repeat. 

I eventually just go to bed with her and whip out a boob every time she wakes and cries throughout the night.  Usually she sleeps for a MAX of 1.5 hours at a time.  Meanwhile, I'm responding to the lightness of her sleep which comes with her wiggling up to me, flipping, flopping and whining.  Some (most) nights I see every hour on the clock at least once.

It's making me fucking mental. 

I don't know why she doesn't stay asleep but it's killing me.  So, here's my question.  Is it time to try CIO?  Is she still too young?  Do I really want to do that? 

So, I'm looking to lean on you friends.  This is what I need, dear ones (besides some Xanax and my own apartment), I need to know how CIO went for you.  What was your experience with it?  What was the process like and what was the result for you?

Here are some basic things to know about me and my thought process to help guide you:

1)  I bought the *extinction method book* and have also read a lot of the *attachment/family bed method.* There are aspects of each of these methods that I find very helpful and pertinent (moving up the bedtime and baby-wearing, respectively) but my problem with each of these books is the same as my problem with most self-helpy kinds of books.  It's the 'Do it this way exactly or you're going to ruin everything forever and ever.  Amen.'  You know what I mean?  Marc Wessblahblah seems to believe that everything--even global warming, maybe--is due to sleep deprivation and parents who are too spineless to let their kids 'learn to go to sleep alone.'  Dr. Searious seems to believe that you should carry and bounce that baby every minute of the day and night (night-time parenting) and that if you don't respond to cries pronto you are creating abandonment issues, possibly. 

**Any die-hard disciples, please understand that I know I'm over-simplifying.  It's just my opinion and general impression.  With lots of love in my heart let me say this: don't nit-pick.

2)  I do not believe that the actual crying at night when she's by herself is going to permanently damage her or her fundamental trust, her psyche or her sense of who she is in the world.  I know it won't be at all pleasant for any of us but I don't think it's harming, per se. 

3)  I'm not necessarily convinced that this method works for 100% of kids and I wonder about The Littlest New Girl's tenacity and whether or not she will frankly outlast me.

4)  As you know, I am no stranger to hearing her cry for hours at a time and so although I am sure it will totally suck to hear her cry, I'm no novice.  And to re-iterate, sometimes she cries like that even if I'm there.

5)  I do like waking up with her (she's usually smiley and very cute in the morning) and I'm sure that I'll miss that and other parts of being in there with her.

6)  I would like to rejoin The Man in our own bed as I've been sleeping in the guest room since the bionic nose phase of pregnancy.  I want some grown up *hem* play time.

7)  I ultimately would like for her to sleep in her own bed peacefully, sooner rather than later because I SUCK without sleep and have I mentioned that I'm GETTING NO SLEEP??

8)  I'm still exclusively breast feeding and so I expect that I will have to go in there during the night to feed her at some point, right?

9)  I'm sort of a 'rip the band-aid off all at once' kind of girl.  I don't have the stamina and/or the consistency needed for a gradual backing away, I don't think.  Going in to pat the butt for a week and then just going in and standing there for a week, all that.  I'm pretty spent, already.  That might send me around the bend.

So, I'm asking you what it was like if you have the time and inclination to help a mama out.  How long did it take?  Did you want to die?  Was it like magic or did it seem like a full time job?  Did you feel like you were wrecking your child?  How did you handle the feeding times?

Let me just thoughtfully and gently add this:

I believe that this, for whatever reason, is a parenting issue about which people tend to *opine* freely and with crap-loads of judgment.  I get that and it's cool.  But I'm not out to whip up a shit-storm.  And since this is my blog post about my own position on my own rope (AKA near the tail end, there) I'm looking for a particular kind of discourse. 

Namely the personal experience kind. 

Instead of mere opinion, belief and conjecture, I am looking for those with experience (no matter how may degrees removed) with CIO.  Those who have at least tried it or have some experience with it.  I don't care whether it worked or not, as I'm exploring various options and I want to know the whole story.  I don't even care if it's your sister's story, as long as she's tried it and you are willing to relate how she did it and the outcome, see?  I am particularly  interested in stories featuring a little one with a *challenging temperament*.  Does it work for them?

If you've already blogged about it and don't want to write it all out again, would you just link it in the comments so I can come by and read it?

Otherwise, dear readers, please let your CIO stories flow forth like a beautiful tide that rolls in to save me.  Or perhaps drown me and put me out of my misery. 

Either way.

I really, really appreciate it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, my internet wonderfuls.  I am very grateful for all of your stories as well as your non-judgment and your well wishes.  The Man and I are steeling ourselves, getting in shape and strong for the upcoming *extinction.*  I'll keep you posted.  Because I know that the tedious, painful experience of letting your OWN kids cry it out just wasn't enough for you. Thanks again.

Comments

[Alexis]

Feel free to !#@&*# at me for ignoring your rules, but have you done the papasan swing, aka the only place my son sleeps?

I plan on building one that holds children over the 25 lb weight limit, seeing as that will probably happen before he will sleep in his crib.

[Jan]

Yes! It's time to try! But you can't go cold turkey, you have to spend some time hanging over the crib, patting her and it may take longer for your hard core Girl. It seems like forever but if you stick with it and do not give up, it WILL happen. My boy was a pretty easy baby but it took more than one night before he caught on. It WILL be worth it. What you are experiencing now is too crazy! Good Luck!

[slouching mom]

I did it with Ben. He was 10 months old. And yes, he had a difficult temperament. It worked like a charm. First night? 25 minutes of crying. Second? 15. Third? None. Thereafter? None.

I don't know if you are SUPPOSED to try it on someone who's younger, but I say why not? I'm not in the camp that believes it'll scar her for life.

[Joanna]

Ok. Deep breath. I forgot how old she is -- here's my story: after much of what you are enduring (hell, all of it), when my 1st son was five months old, to the day, we started CIO at bedtime (not in the middle of the night; that worked itself out very soon after bedtime did, believe it or not). Literally, I would do our bedtime routine, feed him (nursing at the time), and put him in his crib. We used (and still use) a NOISE MACHINE - the one that One Step Ahead sells (each kid has one and uses it; my oldest is now almost FOUR), and I'd put on a CD - something soothing, like Enya. There was a small nightlight, and I made sure the room was the perfect temperature by using a space heater on chilly nights. Sounds like a lot of work, but making sure the scene was just right TOTALLY helped - helped him get comfortable and helped me not run the heck in their every time I'd hear him scream and think "Maybe he's too cold???" So - five months. I'd put him to bed and go downstairs to bite my nails. For the first few nights, he cried for an hour. For the first four or five nights, I went in every 10 minutes - (no less, no longer) - until he fell asleep. I recognized that this was my variation of the Weissbluth and Other Such gradual methods, but I didn't care. It worked for us. I think by the fourth night of CIO for bedtime, I stopped the visits altogether and just let him cry. He worked it out in 25 minutes, then 15, and finally, about a week or so into it, it was a five minute cry and then - sleep. For like three hours straight. A miracle. Immediately, his prior-to-this-awry-sleep-schedule became 10:30 pm and 2 am and 5 am wake-ups. For another two months, I fed him each time he'd wake. He would, though, fall right back asleep after eating, allowing me to put him back in the crib and go to bed myself. * When you get past this point, we can 'talk' again about how I weaned him from each of those wake-ups. Rest assured, it took me until he was 12 months old to get us through the night, as I do NOT do CIO in the middle of the night well at all. (My current baby, 8 mos old, is struggling with this; in fact, tonight if she wakes at 11:30 pm, I will be letting her CIO while I haul my ass back downstairs to bite my nails or blog while I listen to it, as I can not lay in bed and do so). Just know that it's not an easy thing to do, but IMO, it really does do the trick. You'll need to discipline yourself to keep it up for a good week. But I would be completely shocked if by Night 7, you didn't see a major change - for the better. * FWIW, I also like certain AP principals. But I just can't fathom the constancy of the soothing, especially for a high-needs baby that really, honestly cries so much. Man, you need a break. For me, nighttime is coveted. It's my peace time. I think we all need this to be better parents. Just my opinion - if you agree, or think you might agree, please don't feel bad for trying this method. (Hugs) You can always e-mail me if you wish to converse further about how we managed it. Best thing I ever did for my kids, honestly. Best o' luck to you and the LNG -

[Joanna]

Oh, and according to the books that I've read (for whatever THAT is worth), supposedly you start CIO around five to six months - for bedtime or going down for naps, not in the middle of the night. I do believe it's habit at this age, to wake at certain times. Their small bodies regulate so quickly. That's one reason I never withheld feedings in the middle of the night - not for a few more months. If my 8 month old wakes any time after 3 am, I will still feed her, and I'll probably do this until she's close to a year old. I started CIO with her at bedtime when she was about 5.5 months.

[erica]

I did the CIO thing with my daughter when she was four months old or so. It worked well for us. We started a bedtime routine of book, bath, lotion, then bottle. We'd put her to bed awake, but drowsy. Then, when she'd cry, we'd go in and love on her. NEVER picking her up. Patting her, rubbing her tummy and stroking her hair. She'd calm down after a while and we'd leave again. When she'd cry the next time, we'd wait a little longer before going in. (I never timed it.) My husband and I alternated going in to her so she didn't think only one of us was there to comfort her. It took a week, maybe 10 days before it worked. She has slept 12 hours straight thru the night since then and that was five months ago.

The key is consistency. If you ever pick her up and nurse her, then she learns that all she has to do is cry long enough for you to cave in.

I'm not going to candy coat it. It was really hard, but so worth it.

[flutter]

I don't have kids, so I don't have much to add, but oof. I feel for you.

[Shannon]

Ok, I'm not reading any other comments on any other people's opinions. This is my opinion: if it's not working for YOU it's NOT WORKING. Period. I have no problem with the family bed. But it doesn't work for me. I do not sleep with my kids in the same room as me. Period. When I let my daughter CIO (approx. 4 months) I had suffered through four months of colic and much crying and waking up a million times a night and her using my nipple as a soother and I was at the end of my rope. (It's like you're living my life!) The first night of CIO was hard but it got progressively easier and within a week we were putting her to bed awake and she was falling asleep on her own. Of course she didn't start magically sleeping through the night. But it was a start. I've read that you should work on putting them to bed the way you eventually want them to sleep the whole night (ie. in their own bed, awake, but tired) and then do what you have to to stay sane for the rest of the night. But you may have to do CIO version 2.0 which is letting her cry after you put her back to bed after a feed in the night which is hard because you're more exhausted and desperate to get back to sleep.

If, after trying CIO you decide that what you are currently doing is preferable, then, by all means, go back to it. But give it a week or two to work. And if it does, then hopefully you will be getting more sleep and be a much happier mommy. Good luck!

[Shannon]

Oh yes, and I forgot to say, for some kids, going in and patting the bum or speaking to them in a soothing voice (if that's possible when you're worked up yourself) just makes them more pissed off because they know you're there and just NOT picking them up. So if your daughter is one of those (like mine was) you may just have to leave her and let her cry as long as it takes. My daughter's record was 90 minutes. I also thought she would outlast me. The only reason she didn't was my husband keeping me tied up in the other room.

[Bloor West Mama]

Boy, does this post bring back memories. Though I did not have a baby with a 'challenging temperament' I did have a very demanding little girl. This is my story of what we did:

I implemented the sleeping method when she was 6 months, only because it took me this long to realize that this was not right and to be truly out of my mind. My daughter enjoyed falling asleep at the breast and she also enjoyed sleeping with me. One of the first things we did was introduce a pacifier, mostly because she really liked to suck and would cry for the boob only to have something in her mouth. Then we started to introduce a routine into her life at night time. This I believe was key, she would have her dinner, her bath and her cuddles at the same time every night. I found this hard at first because I was not very organized, but it really helped. I also made sure that the Husband was present when we started the sleep training. I was not able to do it by myself. And so, I would feed her and put her down to sleep in her crib awake, but certainly ready for sleep. The first night she cried for almost one hour. We did go in every so often to reassure her and to put her back down and cover her with her blanket and make sure she had her pacifier. As mentioned we NEVER picked her up, and we did not let her see us doubt our actions. I was a wreck that first night, this is why it was so important for the husband to be around because they can go in and reassure them.

Also when you are ready to wean her from the night feeding your husband should be the one to go in. You can NOT go in because she knows that you are her food and she will give you a harder time. But that is for later, she is still too young to go all night.

Back to the sleep training...the following night it got easier but she still cried for about half and hour. I found that being consistent in all aspects of her sleeping (naps and night) really helped.

Since my daughter was already 6 months old, she would only wake up again to feed at around 4 or 5am. I would then put her back down until 7am. I would not go into her room until 7am even if she would cry. After a couple of days if she woke up early she would play in her crib.

Sorry for the long comment, but there is so much to say. I wish you all the best and believe that in the end she will be just fine. Do not feel guilty about using the CIO method, and trust in your feelings. Its ok to go in and reassure her, just remember that you have to be calm and get out quickly. I do hope that you can take something from all this. All the best:)

[Arkie Mama]

I feel your pain.

My first baby was 5 pounds 9 ounces at birth, 5 pounds 2 ounces when we left the hospital -- and so I was PARANOID about making sure she ate enough.

On top of that, she refused bottles until she was six months old. Which meant she ate all night long to make up for what she wasn't eating during the day.

And we had no real set bedtime or rituals, as I just took her to be with me.

AND I read all those attachment parenting books. Several times.

When she was a year old -- yes, you read that correctly -- I was such a sleep-deprived zombie that it's a wonder I ever made it out of the driveway each morning. (I work full time.)

Anyway, we started adhering to rituals and set a bedtime. I still thought maybe I could ease out of the up-all-night-nursing thing, but no ...

At 12 months, we did the CIO thing, kind of a Ferber version, I guess.

Only I didn't go in, only Hubs. Still, she woke up every few hours.

Finally, we tried CIO. Three or four nights of crying and then she starting sleeping through the night without a peep.

With my second baby, I kept him in bed until he was 8 months. He wasn't a frequent nurser, however, so I got longer stretches of sleep.

When he started crawling all over the bed at night, we moved him to a crib -- I was petrified he would crawl off the edge and our bed is higher than the norm.

For the next four months, he woke up twice a night.

Again, at around a year, we used CIO. He cried a couple of nights, then started sleeping through the night.

It's a totally personal decision, and I'd say just follow your instinct.

I know I couldn't have done it very early with my first, because of her weight. And I think I was trying to overcompensate because I worked during the day. It was like I was trying to "make up for it" by remaining at her beck and call all night.

In making your decision, I'd suggest considering her weight and physical needs.

I wouldn't have felt comfortable doing CIO any earlier than six months -- even with my second -- but that's me. (And of course, I'm the woman who waited a year with both kids, so there you go.)

I also feel like the gradual process doesn't work that well. You keep going in, baby gets hopeful, it all starts over, etc...

Whatever you decide, good luck. I know how exhausting it is. I downed coffee like a madwoman every day at work because I was so freaking tired...

The key thing is creating a ritual and sticking to it. Babies love consistency. And don't deviate from the usual bedtime.

Even now, our rituals remain the same -- soft music, lamplight, two books per child in their own rooms.

Be warned -- when they get older, it's getting them to STAY in bed that's a problem.

"Mommy, I need a drink. I have to go potty. I think I saw a spider. I need my blue teddy bear..."

[Jeanne]

My second daughter is currently 4 1/2 months old and I've been using the cry it out method for the last 6 weeks (since I went back to work full time). It worked for me after a couple of rough nights. She would cry but eventually she would find her fingers and could use those to suck herself back to sleep. For a couple of weeks she would sleep through the night; she would get restless at one point (usually around 1 or 2 AM) but could soothe herself back to sleep. But in the last couple of weeks she has started rolling over and now freaks out and screams whenever she is on her stomach. I generally don't feed her during the night (aside from an occasional quick nurse when she is completely inconsolable after an hour of crying) and she can go without food from 7 PM until 6 AM, but the not wanting to be on her stomach thing is not helping right now. I guess once I get through the stomach thing then I have to deal with teething - it's always something! I did this routine with my first and it worked. Sticking to a strick bedtime (usually around 7 PM for us) and then letting them cry it out at night has worked for us. My oldest is almost three and has slept through the night since she was 6 months old with no problem. This is the only way that I have remained sane!

[mel from freak parade]

In a fit of desperation, I tried CIO with my son. For a week, I faithfully followed the rules...no picking up...went in after 5 minutes, then 10, then 15 and so on. He never settled ever. The night he cried and cried and cried until he threw up was the night I learned it is always best to follow my gut, not a book. Whatever you decided to do, just make sure you are listening to what your mommy instinct(?) says is right. I hope you get some sleep soon. Sleep deprivation sucks.
Lest you think it was The Boy's sensory issues or AS that caused it not to work for him...although we chose a different route for The Girl, I know the CIO would not have worked for her either. Sometimes no book method will work for your child and you just have to make your own way. I hope you find something that works for you and the Littlest Girl.

[the new girl]

Alexis: You must take me very seriously, girl. We'll have to talk about that. I'd never #$&!*@# at you for any reason.

Shannon: I doooo see a similarity there, yes. I believe that the LNG would be a get-pissed-and-more-pissed if she peeped me in the middle of the night with nothing but a measly butt-pat to offer.

Arkie Mama: you're a real soldier. If I think of seven more months of this, I want to lay across rail road tracks.

Mel: I totally agree with you believe that as well. Prior to having my kid, I would have scoffed at the idea of possibly wanting to do a CIO approach. But there it is.

[Wren]

I feel your pain, I really do. There is nothing worse than not getting your rest. Parenting isn't easy for ANYONE when they don't get their sleep, no matter how "easy" the baby. My boy is 14 months old, and until he started crawling his sleep patterns were much the same as your New Girl. I didn't get a full night's rest until he began to walk (at 10 months, thankfully it was early).

When he turned about 4-5 months old I was at the end of my rope as well, desperate, and no one in the house was happy. Not me, not hubby, not baby. And I wasn't the best Mum I could be due to sleep deprivation. I finally broke down and read the Ferber book and every other I could get my hands on. I decided on a combination of methods. And yes, I did use CIO, and yes, it was hard, but it feels so very good to hear your baby finally quiet after crying in the next room, knowing that he has just fallen asleep on his own. I still would go and check on him after about 20 mins of quiet, just to make sure he hadn't hurt himself or whatever (I was a bit paranoid). Ferber was the best for us, but every baby is different. What the "sleep experts" say is true, though. Your baby has to learn to sleep on her own. Not letting her learn this would be doing her (and your whole family) a disservice. You love her, but you can't sacrifice your sanity and her safety by giving in to her stubborn icky sleep habits. It's not abuse, she will sleep and forget that she cried, she will wake happier and better rested with smiles for you, and eventually you will have the norm of nursing/cuddling, storytime, and off to bed without a whimper.

Another thing that really helped us was a fan or white noise machine. As soon as I started to use one next to his crib, his sleep improved dramatically. He's just a light sleeper like his mum, and the noise helps block out the household while he's asleep.

Good luck, I know it's hard, but when you all start getting more rest you will ALL be happier. Just think how tired she's got to be, babies need a lot more sleep than adults, and she's not getting her rest either. She will learn. You just have to be more stubborn than she is. Come on, she had to get it from SOMEONE!

[Kelly]

I learned from Ask Moxie (bless her!) about figuring if your child is a "cry to release stress" or a "crying builds stress" to understand what sleeping method would work with my boys. They were both stress-builders, so CIO wouldn't have worked at all with us. The white-noise machine, though, was a Gods-sent because that made a huge difference. My first boy, like your daughter, would wake up after 15mins or so when his body was juuust about ready to plunge over the deep-sleep cliff and he was making one last ditch effort to see if it was worth waking or not - inevitably he'd wake up because he'd hear *something* exciting going on (usually a house creak or something). The 2nd boy we had the white noise machine from the start and it's helped a lot, but he didn't start to sleep longer than 1-2hrs a pop until he was 6mo or so. He's teething now, so that buggers things up a lot (as did a cold he caught this summer) but infant tylenol at bedtime helps get him through that first light phase of sleeping.
Oh, and between 6mo and now (10mo) we struggled with figuring out what was keeping him up. It was temperature. He was too hot/too cold and we really had to fine tune his pj's vs room temp vs blanket weight to find the perfect combination that would lead to sleeping.

[Kristen]

Oh boy. This is going to be fun! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

From my own reading and experience (ha), I think CIO works well if they can self soothe. It also works if you don't have a worker-up-to-mass-chaos cryer (imho).

Q could NEVER be calmed when she started crying. For her, it just escalated things and made them worse.

We did much of what you are doing now, except that we put her in her own room mainly because she wasn't even sleeping on our bed. If she would have slept, we probably would have left her in with us -- but crikey, if she's not sleeping in there, might as well have her NOT sleep in her own room.

If she's getting cranky really quickly with your routine, I'd say you might want to try an earlier bed time.

I always had a very clear routine with Q -- bath, rock, nurse, and then lay her down. She always had to be asleep. There was NO WAY IN HELL she would fall asleep awake. Ever.

Drew is the total opposite and I can let him CIO and can tell whether he's going to go to sleep or if something else is wrong.

Anyway, there are a couple of things to consider... Will she sleep better on her stomach (everyone gasps). I still wonder if she has reflux (which I think Q did) and she would NEVER lay on her back even propped up.

So, is that something to think about as well as perhaps an Amby Bed. People SWEAR by them and that might be something too.

Also, I think if she's in her own room and you can bear it, if she's not screaming but she's sort of in and out of the awakeness, then you might get more sleep because when you're in there, you hear it and you can't sleep with her being awake. BUT, if you just turn off the monitor in your own room, no doubt you'll hear her crying, but maybe you won't hear her chitty chatty whatever she does.

Just a thought.

Also, white noise is good. VERY GOOD.

[bubandpie]

The right time to do CIO, in my opinion, is when your desperation for sleep exceeds your desperation to avoid hearing the crying.

For me, that was when my kids were 7 months old (which, as it turned out, was the age at which they developed the ability to retrieve and replace the pacifier themselves). Both of them were going down drowsy but awake and falling to sleep on their own for naps and bedtime - but then they would awaken as often as every hour during the night and needing either the pacifier or the pacifier-plus-bum-pats/nursing to return to sleep.

With Pie, I visited at graduated intervals, Ferber-style, but with Bub that just made him angrier, so we did the full-on extinction method. In Pie's case, she cried for ten minutes or less EXCEPT for her 5:30 awakening, which went on for an hour. After the first night, I realized that she could return to sleep on her own anytime before 5, but after that she needed to be nursed.

Bub was a tougher nut to crack. His longest nights were up to an hour of crying, and the process with him was very much three steps forward, two steps back. He would sleep through for a few nights, and then awaken the next couple of nights. All in all, it was about a month before we established a firm habit of sleeping all the way through the night. (In his case, I had established that his cries were not hunger-related - nursing made no difference to him: what he wanted was his pacifier.) Once that month was past, I noticed a huge difference in him - he was just a happier baby (and I was a happier mom).

[Much More Than A Mom]

I tried, out of desperation. (I'm totally not a 'let them cry' person but I was dying.) It sucked my ass and didn't even work. He slept through the night (13 hours consistently) at 12.5 months and that's when he was ready no matter what I did. Until then, it was all about the boob. I know it works for some, so whatever you choose, good luck! (Oh, and our best purchase EVER was a lazyboy for his bedroom. It came was too late but we still use it when he's teething so I can get some rest while holding him. Gliders suck in comparison.)

[bananafana]

we tried CIO and it was hell for us. my son would eventually fall asleep but he never stopped the crying every night (though it did get somewhat shorter). we eventually gave it up (after over a month) because he was still waking up 3 or four times a night either way and it just seemed like too much strain for not much result. I'm glad we tried it but it wasn't for him - we'd try it again on the next one but not for as long if we weren't seeing good signs it was working. what we ended up doing was a combo of rocking him to sleep then sitting next to his bed for a while while he settled in. we still do some form of this - we read books, cuddle for a few minutes and sit by his bed so he knows we're there until he is asleep. this is the only thing that has worked for him sleeping through the night.
Most important - what we learned is that every kid is different. no method works just right for all kids. try things out that sound good to you and see how they work. if they're not working try something else. You Will Not Ruin Your Child!!!!

[Mrs. Chicky]

I had reached the end of my rope with Chicky when she was five months old, so we started letting her CIO for naps first, and then eventually bedtime, around then. It took a few days (hellish, awful, heartbreaking days) but it eventually worked and now she sleeps like a dream. Which almost makes up for 9 months of morning sickness and four months of colic.

[Angela]

We were going freaking nuts when my son was born and nursing less for food than for comfort. I bought him a "lovey" and would put him in his crib with the aquarium thing that made music. He would go crazy, and after 10 minutes I would go in and rub his back, 10 minutes later would be right inside the doorway talking to him, then 10 minutes later outside the door talking to him. Eventually this was deemed unnecessary as he would just fall asleep after 10-15 minutes and little to no crying. After a few days, he would soothe himself and now he puts himself down. He might cry for a few minutes but he does it on his own. A friend with a little one asked me recently how I put my son to bed and I said "drop him in the crib, tell him good night, and close the door!" It sounded surreal after what we had gone thru to get him there but it was worth it. Seriously best of luck to you and the littlest new girl, I know this is sucking (pun intended) right now, but it will get better.

[Joanna]

NG, there is also something out there, a swing-type device, that is supposedly awesome for kids who fight it. Let me see if I can find a link:http://www.ambybaby.com/

This thing is supposed to be awesome. I considered it with my 2nd but never did it - a little pricey, BUT, if you can get full use out of it, I think it's another great option. I have a bunch of online friends who swore by this thing.

[Kelly]

My only regret with doing CIO was that I didn't do it sooner. I waited a goddam long 14 months.

I kept saying, 'when she's six months, I do it,' and then, 'when she's nine months, I'll do it,' and then 'when she's a year, I'll do it.' I did do some interventions along the way, starting with putting her back into her crib awake after a nightnursing at about 5 months old. This coincided with me trying my own version of Ferber at the same age, and as far as reducing nightwakings, it worked, so we ended up going from 6-7 nursings a night to around 3. Putting her to bed was still a protracted effort, though. It was, at least, livable, and her wakings were fairly predictable, so I'd trudge upstairs when I'd hear her wake at 10:30pm and nurse her and put her back down to sleep. (This was when she was around 6-7 months old.) Repeat at 1:30am and 5:00am.

I think I was so relieved just to be getting some sleep that I was hesitant to address it, and I needed to, specifically her bedtime routine. We did bath and books and nursing, but she had to be completely asleep when I'd put her in her crib, otherwise she'd start screaming. So often I had to pick her back up and walk her around the nursery, and sometimes bring her back to my room to nurse on the bed again, and try to lie her back down in her crib. Sometimes putting her to sleep took two hours, and meanwhile, my eldest needed my attention, wanted me to read to her and snuggle with her at bedtime as well.

So, fast forward to Christmas of 2006. I had put Lillian to bed successfully, and she was now 14 months old. My husband had gone out for the evening to a friend's house, and as I was putting my other daughter to bed, Lillian woke up. Hannah started crying, saying something like, "She's always ruining my stories," and I felt so sad, and then angry. I was all alone, trying to handle two children at bedtime. I didn't want to disrupt Hannah's life anymore than it had been already, so I let Lillian yell. As fairly predictable as Lillian's routine had become, it was still unpredictable enough to impact the rest of the family, and god knows it was still impacting me as well. That evening, a few days before Christmas, I decided to let her CIO, checking on her every 5, and then 10, and then 15 minutes. I'd go in, tell her it was bedtime, give a brief pat, and then leave again. Surprisingly, I felt good about my decision. It was about time. It took her 3 nights to get the idea that bedtime was bedtime, that we read books, washed up, nursed, and then it was into the crib. I kept her nightnursings for the time being, letting her wake to nurse and hoping they would gradually decrease naturally.

I did eventually have to address them, after working our way down from 3 to 2 to 1. And I let her cry, again, it only took a few days for her to get it. My husband also became her chief comforter for those few days, going in to check on her in the night when she woke, and giving her the 'it's bedtime' talk.

Sleep is such a precious thing, and even when you get woken a few times a night, it's livable when you're getting a chunk of three hours in between wakings. I remember being where you are currently, and talking to my doctor about anti-depressants, after having been off of them for nearly 6 years. It's no fun, and my feeling is that we adjust so much for them, that sometimes we need to force their adjustment for our own sanity. The process sucks, but ultimately, it's worth it.

My piece of assvice is to perhaps do CIO at bedtime. Try to enforce it then. (I used earplugs, and hung out in the basement wrapping presents. The first night it took close to 90 minutes. The second, closer to two hours.) And see if it has any impact on her nightwaking.

I second, third and fourth the wonderfulness of white noise machines. Made our squeaky wood floors disappear.

I have so much empathy for you. I have SOOOOO been where you are, wondering when the fuck my kid was going to sleep. Lillian took neither a bottle nor a pacifier. That meant me. I was the solution, and it sent me over the edge on many occasion.

If you feel you cannot maintain this (and quite frankly, who the hell could?), see what you feel comfortable doing as far as addressing it. She'll still love you and need you, and whatever the fuck Dr. Sears says, don't listen, because it was his wife doing the lion's share of 'nighttime parenting,' or whatever the hell euphemism he came up with for being tired as hell.

Keep us up to date. I know I have some sleep posts in my archive, but I'm not certain if they'd be any help to you.

[amy]

I did cio with my daughter when she was cresting two months old. I put her in her crib after a feeding, tucked her in (90 times out of a 100 she was already asleep so all that bullshit about having to put them in bed when they're sleepy, but still awake blahblahblah learn to soothe themselves to sleep blahblah bullshit utter crap!). I turned on the monitor and left the room, closed the door. I sat in the living room and watched tv, and watched the lights scale past the end of the monitor for 30-45 mins for about three nights in a row... then... notta. She slept through the night from two months of age. Like a rock. To this day she sleeps like the dead, and needs a minimum of 10 hours sleep an night.

I tried cio with my son who is an extremely intense child (he did not, surprisingly, have colic though...). It.Did.Not.Work.

I cried piteously outside his door while he SCREAMED at the TOP of his LUNGS like someone was ripping him limb from limb. I lasted maybe 30 mins and then I rescued him. That's exactly what it felt like; I was rescuing him. It has taken me 4 solid years to get this child to sleep through the night. He sleeps fitfully, can stay up until midnight and be up at the crack of stupid o'clock in the morning, beaming and cheerful, has night terrors and falls out of bed constantly. He's my odd monkey.

Two children, same parents, two polar opposite reactions to CIO method.

I leave you with THIS. YOU will KNOW whether it's working or not. You just will. It will either grate on your nerves (but you know they're FINE) to hear them cry, or it will rip you to shreds and it will destroy you not to go get them that instant.

Do whatever you can, for as long as you can, to get some sleep. I wish you all the luck in the world.

[lizk]

WOW! You've been blessed with lots of advise. The best thing I did with both of my kids, both of whom were breastfeed and started life sharing a bed with me was letting them cry it out for a couple nights, they quickly adjusted to their own beds and turn off the baby monitor, horrible I know but I was waking up to every little movement, whimper etc and often getting up to go to them before they really woke up. With the baby monitor off I only woke up if they were really crying and I realized that I was probably the culprit in their poor sleeping since I think I was waking them up when they often would have settled themselves back to sleep if I hadn't been so super vigilant with that damn monitor. Good Luck! Nothing sucks worse than loving your child but wanting to kill them due to sleep deprivation!

[m]

Forgive me if you've already answered this in earlier posts, but did you ever try a pacifier? My firstborn was using me as one and I was losing my mind. It took him a while to get the hang of keeping it in, but once he did, boy, did it change our lives. (I of course had sworn that I would NOT be giving my baby a pacifier. HA.)

[Amy Jo]

We had a lot of success with cio when my son was 4 months old. It was tough listening to him scream and scream, but after a week or so, he slept like the proverbial baby. Good luck!

[the new girl]

m: we've tried the pacifier without success. She doesn't like them. The bugger.

[Meredith]

We did CIO about the same age your daughter is. It was perfect...took about 45 minutes the first night and less each night for 3 nights. Now, I nurse her in her room, lie her down in her crib (partially awake) and she flops over, closes her eyes, and I leave. She is 8 months old and doesn't eat at night - wakes up like an alarm clock 5:45 am every day. When she was younger, I would go in when she woke up at night, nurse her, and lie her back down. When we were doing that, she would cry for a good 15 minutes sometimes, but the good thing about CIO is that once you've gone through it, they really don't wake up at night. Feed her before bed - do it when she has a full tummy and fresh from a bath. Good luck!

Now - I didn't feel much guilt about letting her cry only because, like you, she would cry whether I was holding her or not. ALSO - you have to look at what you want ultimately - for her to sleep in her crib by herself every night.

ANNNNNNDDDD - she will still wake up really cute. You will hear sweet babbling every morning and you will get the joy of seeing her light up when you walk into her room to greet her! :)

[Manic Mommy]

Wow did you open a can of worms. I emailed you.

Side note: Keep trying different pacifiers - we like the Avent newborn ones.

[Brenna]

Short version because I'm typing one-handed while holding my little one:

We did CIO with both our older kids around 4 months old (now 8 and almost 6) and while I don't remember much detail about our experience, it worked damn well. They started putting themselves to sleep and sleeping through the night within a week. Best thing ever, no regrets for me. They both sleep like champs now, no problems.

If it feels right, do it. She's the perfect age for it, IMO. Best of luck to you!

[Kristen]

Look! More!

Just do one or the other. Don't try naps AND nighttime.

Some kids are great nappers, others are great night time.

I say go for nighttime (my personal opinion) and get that all figured out.

Heh.

[Laura Lou]

I don't have any personal experiences to share, but have you tried searching Ask Moxie's archives? You've gotten a lot of good advice here, but she addresses sleep pretty frequently and you might find some more tips. Good luck and I hope you get some sleep soon.

[the new girl]

Kristen: More is always good. Well, mostly. From you, anyway. I'm planning on night-time first. I can wear/bounce her for naps (never did that at night anyway). Supposedly you can do naps/night differently...naps maybe I'd try later.

Laura Lou: I've looked through Moxie. I'll look again. I remember that when I looked, I felt like she was saying that certain kinds of kids could be hurt from too much crying but maybe that was just me.

[susan]

hi, just came across your blog and diggin' on it. really!

as i have two small people i haven't had time to read all the other replies, so i apologise if i'm just saying what everyone else has (so feel free to delete this if i am!), but if you're unsure about CIO, you could try Elizabeth Pantley's 'No Cry Sleep Solution'. I think it may take a bit longer (say, weeks) than CIO but it may be the route to take if the thought of her CIO is just too much for you. Not sure about it's effectiveness in all situations, but then I guess neither is CIO.

On the flip side, if you're down with CIO and really feel ready for it (and may i stress that you should NOT try CIO unless you really are committed to it, as otherwise you will dither and sob yourself, and end up chucking it in half way through, which just confuses your child more, and means they screamed for a while for no reason), try webpages like: http://www.karitane.com.au/Pages/documents/SLEEP%20AND%20SETTLE.pdf

it's a slighlty gentler version of CIO than, say, leaving baby to cry for hours and hours on end, but still gets the same results. It's also done according to age, so their approach for a 2 month old is different to that for a 6 month old. it's written in a clear, no nonsense, but kindly way, and seems pretty good (written by the mother and baby residential stay units here in Aus who specialise in helping parents leanr how to settle and feed their babies and toddlers. it's government funded)

you gotta do what works for you and your baby; ignore any drive-by parenting comments. and let me just say from experience: NOTHING IS WORSE THAN EXTENDED SLEEP DEPRIVATION. Seriously, it has been proven to cause post natal depression, so do whatever you can to fix the situation in a way you're happy with. you (and your baby, who also needs a good nights sleep) are not doing anyone any favours by being this sleep deprived.

Good luck and let us know how you go!

[mamatulip]

Okay, here are my personal experiences with CIO. With Julia we got into this really bad habit of basically putting her to sleep -- bouncing or rocking or nursing her to sleep. And when she hit about 8 months she wouldn't go to sleep without us PUTTING her to sleep by one of those methods. So we realized that if we didn't want to be rocking her to sleep when she was 8 then we needed to teach her how to self soothe and go to sleep herself, and that's when we tried CIO. The first night was brutal. She cried and screamed and I sat in the hall with tears streaming down my face. I'd go in every 7 minutes or so, pat her back, speak softly to her and tell her that we were here and that she was safe and that we loved her, and then I'd leave. The second night was a little better, but not much. The third night she cried so hard she threw up on herself, but she only cried for about 10 minutes.

The fourth night she fell asleep within about 3 minutes. And that was it. From then on we've never really had any problems with her as far as sleeping goes.

With Oliver...he was a bit needier, and he had more "issues" as a newborn than she did, but I did the same thing with him -- he'd cry and I'd go in after about 10 minutes and pat his back, rub his belly, reassure him and then leave. And it seems to have worked for us, and for our kids.

There you have it. Our CIO experience. :)

[Andrea]

I tried CIO for all of about two hours. Couldn't handle it. It just didn't seem to work for my little one and two straight hours of crying made me ready to cry too. And drink. Heavily.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it already, and I know you said you don't know if you have the patience at this point for gradual backing away, but I found that the No Cry Sleep Solution book was the most helpful in terms of finding the situation that worked best for my son. And realistically, it didn't take that long to do it gradually, and it was a lot less jarring to my nerves. After about a month, I was able to read to him for a few minutes, rock in a rocking chair with him for a few minutes, and then kiss him goodnight and put him in his crib and fifteen minutes later, he'd be asleep on his own, having babbled himself to dreamland.

Now that he's pushing 4, we're dealing with different sleep issues (nightmares and wanting to sleep in our bed all the time) and there's another No Cry book for older kids, but I haven't gone through it all yet. I will say that the methods we used when he was a baby from the No Cry Sleep Solution book were probably the most gentle, and a good balance between CIO and baby wearing/co-sleeping. At least for us.

Good luck. I hope you find something that works soon.

[Lindsay]

Here is what worked for us. We have a 17 month old who goes to bed at 7 and wakes up around 8/9 (baby loves her sleep) and she's done so nearly every night since 3 months so I feel VERY lucky compared to some of the other poor parents I work with.

Starting at 2.5 months we created a bedtime routine of bath, pjs, and one short book. Then I put her down and just like your gal she would wake up EVERY fifteen minutes all night.

So for two weeks straight I "slept" in the glider in her room and everytime she'd wake I wouldn't pick her up or feed her but I would put her pacifier back in and gently rub her back and not talk to her but just let her know it was ok and I was there.

So she'd fall asleep, wake back up and I would do the same thing all night. Gradually the times between waking increased until she was able to fall back asleep on her own (since all kids wake up during the night).

It was a rough period, but it worked. We did the cry it out method a little later on when she was at 6 months and waking up due to crawling/walking/etc. The other thing I recommend to ALL parents is the Ocean Wonders aquarium. That thing is awesome. We always put it on when we laid her down to "condition" her to associating it with sleep. Now, when she wakes up she'll put it on herself and 2 mins later I hear snoring. Hope that helps. :)

[Shea]

I feel your pain.My husband and I read all the same books and finally out of sheer desperation decided we had to do it. I consoled my self with the fact that really she cried uncollrollably even when I was holding her. We did it at about 4 months for 3-4 days but it just didn't work for us. She would cry for well over an hour each time and then sleep for only 15-30 minutes and start back up. On the third day, two things happened to make us give up. 1) She literally rubbed a raw/ bald spot on the back of her head.
2) She finally quit crying- but we soon realized the she had completely lost her voice. (That was a fun visit at the doctor's office trying to explain that). I thought the constant crying would kill me but to see her "screaming" and flailing about but to have NO SOUND coming out- was even worse.

I do believe it works for many people- but my girl was just too stubborn- still is at almost three.

We never did get her in a crib. We caved and shared a bed with her until she was 18 months (only way any of us got any sleep) and then put guard rails on the guest room bed and finally got her to sleep in there. However- we still had to stay in the room until she fell asleep. We started out in the bed with her and then moved to the chair by the bed. Then made it to the doorway and are now finally down the hall out of sight. She turns three next month and we have told her at the time- we are going to have to go downstairs - fingers crossed.

On a side note- we ended up moving her bedroom to the guest room and to this day- SHE WILL NOT EVEN GO IN HER OLD ROOM. It's really wierd.
I've come to realize that some kids come into this world higher maintenance than others. She still has her moments and will wear out the patience of the best of them- but her highs are higher than any child I know-she as an exuberance for life that you rarely see. I'll bet yours does too.

[Laural]

I remember how hard this point in babyhood can be. Here's what we did. My son was a very light sleeper and for the first year, yes year, he never slept more than 3 or 4 hours at a time. Would not sleep in the crib or bassinet or on a little pallet next to our bed, had to be next to me. I seriously started to believe that he could sense when I fell asleep and would wake up. I slept with him, sometimes on the guest bed, sometimes on the couch. For some reason he would sleep by himself on the couch sometimes and I slept on the floor beside him for fear he'd roll off. I nursed on demand. I nursed a lot. I think 4 months was a big growth spurt that required an inordinate amount of nursing too. We let him cry it out a few weeks before his first birthday. It was hard but after 3 nights, it took and he was okay. You are in my prayers and no matter what you decide to do, remember that a sane mama is always better for a child than an exhausted crazy one. Good luck.

[Therese]

Do you use a pacifier? It seems like she is soothed by the sucking, not the need for nutrition itself. I know, I know, they're not for everyone!!!

[Stacey]

Delurking :)

I have a 9 1/2 month old that goes through periods every few months where he wakes up earlier and earlier. He was a big "comfort sucker" too and just wanted me in there.

I started letting him cry it out at about 3 months. He was still getting up wanting to eat every 2-3 hours and I was going insane getting up with him and my 2 1/2 year old that was going through a phase too.

When he cried, I would go in and give him his binky (check out www.babydagny.com for their binkies - adorable, hard to lose, and easy for baby to hold and pick up when they drop them!) shush him and leave. He would typically cry again immediately and I would wait 5 minutes then go in and do the same thing - not picking him up although sometimes I would lean in for hugs. Then it would be 10 minutes. So on until he fell asleep. He gradually learned to get himself back to sleep and within a week, he's doing it on his own. I've found that whenever you are making a change, plan on a bad week - but just one. then it DOES get better! One really bad week, or months of bad sleeping.

I agree that not everything works for everyone, but you do have to give them an opportunity to learn how to get themselves to sleep. Painful in the beginning? Probably more so for you than for them, but just tough it out for a week and you'll see a change.

It'll get better.

[ImpostorMom]

http://impostormom.com/2007/08/25/cry-baby-cry/

I wrote some about it there. Also, check out Ask Moxie as well. She makes some good points on determining whether or not your little one releases tension by crying or builds tension by crying.

It's hard but ultimately worth it for us. He still wakes up and lately he's gotten worse but it certainly isn't as bad as it was during that stretch at 4-5 months.

[Phoenix]

Trade her in for the sleeping kind? Upgrade her chip? ;)

[Audrey]

We're currently in the midst of CIO. I nurse Baby between 6:30 and 7:30 (depending on her and what naps she's had) and then put her down. She usually stays asleep for a bit, but if she wakes as soon as I put her down, I leave the room and the crying begins. We set a time limit (5, 10, 15, 20 minutes) and my HUSBAND (this is key - mommy smells like milk!) goes in to replace her binky and try to calm her. She usually cries herself out by this point. Repeat as needed throughout the night. I have been nursing once per night and, depending on what time that comes and depending on if it's the weekend (we just started this CIO process last week), she either goes back in her crib (in her own room) or in our bed. Having Daddy go in is really important. You may need to remove yourself from the house for the first few times of getting her down. (Or get earplugs; that's what my pediatrician suggested.) Also, if she takes a pacifier, put several in her crib, take down her mobile, and put on music on repeat.

I'm struggling through this right now, too, so email me if you want - we can support and commiserate each other!

[Lindsey]

My opinion - without reading any prior posts.

Generally, I do no have an issue with CIO at all. In fact, it worked beautifully for my daughter.

I do feel strongly, however, that from what little I know of the littlest new girl ---- this isn't going to work for her. She does very seriously need you a lot of the time. She is more high needs than most, from what I am reading, for a newborn. And I don't see where CIO will benefit her, when the being together and the responding to her is what she needs.

Do you know what I mean?

If she were your "average" cryer, for instance, "average sleeper" as well, I'd say -go for it. She wouldn't be the kind of kid who demonstrates often how much she needs you.

Littlest New Girl does.

I just don't see it bringing relief to any of you in this particular situation. Not yet. Not till she is a bit older.

[Heather]

In my opinion, it's OK to let them cry. They need to learn how to self-soothe. When I decided that the twins had sent me over the edge with late-night cuddles and feeding sessions (at 7 months), this is what I did. First night, lay them down, let them cry for 5 minutes, soothe for one minute, leave the room. They then cried for 10 minutes. Soothe for one minute, leave the room. The next round was 15 minutes. See where I'm going with this? It took them an hour to get to sleep. The second night, we waited 10 minutes before going in the first time. The third night, it was 15, and by the fourth night, there was no fussing and they slept 12 hours. So, just be strong, stick to it, and you'll make it through. Good luck!

[the new girl]

Lindsey: While I appreciate your opinion and I can see where you're coming from, I believe that the fact that she's not an *average sleeper* is partially what's brought me to this place.

And demonstrating her needs or not, she doesn't really sleep when we're together. And she needs to sleep (we both do.)

Nor is she any happier, I don't think, than if she was in her bed by herself. She's been known to cry for over an hour when I'm THERE with her.

So, go figure.

[Penny]

Just know that whatever method you choose, know that the process is long and will probably take a few (several) re-implementations along the way.

We didn't do full-on CIO, we did a modified version starting around 7-8 months when she started waking up more frequently. We left her a maximum 5 minutes at a time to cry. We would check on her at these intervals, and wouldn't pick her up -we'd just touch her and talk to her while she was in her crib. It actually didn't take too long (the first time) once we developed a skin tough enough to stick it out. A few days, progressively shorter each time, and after that she was cutting way down on the waking up in the night. Also, I was breastfeeding at the time if that makes any difference.